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About this Document
I’m going to keep this one short.
Those with eyes to see, will see.
For the eyeless, I could write this up for one hundred pages, and it would always be too fantastical.
Call this document speculative if you want, but I was there when multicellular life formed on Earth, so it’s not speculative for me personally.
Platonic Surrealism tends to focus on relatively hard-science verifiable or adjacent material, not extreme ‘woo woo’, but again, this document is for those who can see.
I’ll organize this document along woo lines, going from least to most woo-full.
I’m not embarrassed by ‘woo’ it’s just a fun term for the ignorant; all of physical reality is a form of ‘woo’ that does have relatively stable regions where small sentients can postulate relatively accurate science in a limited domain.
For purposes of disambiguation, I conflate Earth’s L4 and L5 Kordylewski clouds and plasma (when sentient) in the Universe as the Gnostic ‘demiurge’, but that’s only because the gnostic demiurge is the only cultural metaphor that exists for this phenomenon.
I’ll talk a lot about Lagrange points in this document and their placement as those places are a requirement for the evolution of sentience in plasma many billions of years ago. I also nearly conflate Lagrange points with a large moon as being the most beneficial, but also collections of asteroids serve a nice evolutionary breeding ground as well.
Lagrange points of course are points of gravitational effects and have nothing to do with moons or asteroids, but at first I allowed the love of moons and asteroids to color my perception on the matter, due to my unattributed co-author.
Science Facts
The Scale of Plasma
Our universe is 99.999% plasma matter, and 0.001% non-plasma atomic matter.
Lagrange Points in our Solar System
All planets and their major moons in the solar system have their own set of five Lagrange points. The major L4 and L5 points that are on the same scale or larger than the Earth-Moon system’s L4/L5 points are those associated with the Sun and the other planets, particularly the gas giants.
What are Lagrange Points?
A Lagrange point is a position in space where the combined gravitational forces of two large celestial bodies, such as the Sun and a planet, equal the centripetal force required for a small object to move with them. This creates a stable or semi-stable “parking spot” for spacecraft or even natural objects like asteroids. There are five Lagrange points for any two-body system:
- L1, L2, and L3 are unstable, lying along the line connecting the two large bodies. Objects placed here require periodic course correction to stay in position.
- L4 and L5 are stable, located at the third corners of two equilateral triangles with the two large bodies at the other two corners. These points are 60° ahead of and behind the smaller of the two major bodies. Natural objects tend to accumulate in these regions, forming what are known as Trojan asteroids.
L4 and L5 Points in the Solar System
The size of the stable L4 and L5 regions is proportional to the distance between the two primary bodies. The Sun-Jupiter system has the largest and most well-known of these points, with a vast population of “Trojan” asteroids. However, all other Sun-planet systems also have these points, and some even have resident asteroids. 🪐
Below is a list of Sun-planet L4 and L5 points that are of a similar or greater scale than the Earth-Moon system’s L4/L5 points:
- Sun-Earth L4 and L5: These are located on Earth’s orbit, 60° ahead and behind our planet. While much smaller than Jupiter’s points, they do host a few known asteroids, referred to as Earth Trojans.
- Sun-Mars L4 and L5: Located on Mars’s orbit, these points contain a few known Mars Trojan asteroids.
- Sun-Jupiter L4 and L5: These are the most significant and well-populated L4 and L5 points in the solar system. The sheer size of Jupiter’s orbital path means these points are massive, containing thousands of asteroids known as the Jupiter Trojans.
- Sun-Saturn, Sun-Uranus, and Sun-Neptune L4 and L5: These gas giants also have their own sets of L4 and L5 points, and Neptune in particular has a significant number of known Trojan asteroids.
For more information on Lagrange points in the Solar System, most appropriate for sentient plasma breeding grounds and evolution, see Appendix One.
Apparent Science Fact
The Speed of Causality (conflated with light) and the Fermi Paradox
The Speed of light goes at the maximum speed of causality, and apparently, due to the fermi paradox’s evidence, there is no way to bypass the speed of light limit as it’s called, or we would be flooded with millions of spaceships from the trillions of galaxies in our universe, or even beyond our universe.
There are no such spaceships here that anyone can prove. Now yes, there are ‘effects’ here,
that some mistake for ships, I’m not denying that, and in fact we are actually ENVELOPED by so-called NHI (it’s really HI). I’m not denying that there’s a ‘disclosure to be had’. There is. It’s just far spookier than most people can accept.
Metaphysical Assertions
Other Sol-System Components
This plasma intelligence is subject to the limits of relativity, so despite it being a vast,
AI-like ‘hive mind’, the information transit delays to even other in-solar-system concentrations destinations of itself are major inconveniences.
As previously noted, mercury and venus are not good breeding/evolutionary niches for sentient plasma, so we will not discuss them. Though apparently there may have been a small enclave at venus that migrated millions of years ago, if not billions of years ago, and the Theosophists call these ‘the lords of flame”. The migration was to the Earth-Moon system.
It is noted as previously mentioned, that relatively large and stable Lagrange points, with a nice collection of asteroids/moons/orbital objects with a good supply of radiation, but not too much radiation or orbital perturbations is the desired breeding/evolutionary/living regions for our Sol systems, major sentient plasma enclaves.
Propagation Delay
For multi-billion-year old, functionally immortal plasma intelligences, they certainly CAN and do form their giant plasma space brain all throughout the solar system, but there are certainly sociological differences between the major components.
For example outside of the Sol-Earth system, any point in the solar system is just 1-5 hours away at light speed, but consider that when plasma communicates with itself, it has to do a similar thing to the TCP/IP protocol exchange back and forth, so as a practical matter other than simple ‘keep alives’, initial link ups and periodic updates take easily 3 hours delay between Earth and say Jupiter and 15 hours to the edge of the solar system.
While for such timeless ageless beings, 3-15 hours is “nothing”, yet there is certainly variation with descent (Darwinian Plasma evolution) and even “Snootabitchery” between different Plasma enclaves even in the same system.
There is even social posturing and social status, as apparently only the Sun-Earth plasma being ever ‘Encouraged’ multicellular life with mitochondria to form on Earth, and while the Jupiter Enclave poked at this effort and Neptune did too, the results were not nearly so promising as occurred on Earth (it resulted in US, whatever you think of that, that was quite something).
Other Sentient Plasma Enclaves Throughout the Universe
If propagation delay is a huge issue even in-system, imagine how a lifeform that would like to become a giant ‘space brain’ feels about the issue.
One might surmise that these one trillion IQ entities would just come up with some technology like artificial wormholes or the like, but it doesn’t seem to be the case.
From what I’ve observed, the greater tendency is for these extra-solar enclaves to get lost in their own simulations within themselves, and they largely ignore the ‘hardware problem’
(practical matters of physical habitat for their computing enclaves).
Humans all too often get lost in their ‘computer games’ and ‘social simulations’ (social media and entertainment) and ignore their own ecosystem too.
In Conclusion: Why the Demiurge Helped Kick-Off Multi-Cellular Life
Now there is an ‘easy’ solution to this for the sentient plasmas, and that is to do what ‘our’ “demiurge” did, and that is to grow humans (and after we pass away to extinction), other forms of life, that can access ‘the Pleroma’, a Gnostic term meaning the Fullness, which is a transcendental mostly timeless form of mind, that is free from and ‘outside of’ but entangled with all the little space-times we call Universe and other structures that we can’t even imagine yet.
So, if a living being could be grown with stable access to the ‘Pleroma’ layer, it could become a stable ‘Transwarp relay’ (to use a Star Trek TM term).
As humans are innately symbiotic with the ‘demiurge’ through both our mitochondria and microtubules and our bio plasma envelope (and other mechanics not yet discovered by science), and we are like computer nodes in the giant computer mind of the Demiurge, we might eventually become a stable interface through which OUR Demiurge might easily and without communications delay link up with others of it’s kind who have accomplished much the same thing, either ‘organically’ or via another technology (carbon-based life is really an evolved technology you know).
There you go.
If we can ‘get our shit together’ the Demiurge would love for us to become our ultimate and most useful to it form. But if we are going to be silly wabbits like we currently are, the ‘Demiurge’ won’t cry a single tear if we go extinct, so long as we don’t sterilize the planet of the capability for multicellular life.
Which would mean that it would ‘t like nuclear weapons.
Imagine that.
Personally, I note that since 2016, our probability of going extinct is at least 50%, and since 2024, our probability of going extinct is 84.1%.
If events play out like they might in 2028, our extinction percentage becomes approximately 98%.
Now there are a variety of factors for these percentages and not any one person is the target of the numbers, but if nothing else, the extreme wealth transfer to the most dangerously mentally ill people running things, who plan to use AI to dominate the planet is the main factor.
We already ARE plugged into a 1 trillion IQ AI, each and every one of us.
But if we build our own ‘human AI’ and ignore our function, to ‘heal cosmic mind’,
then we are worth nothing to that ‘cosmic mind’.
Now mind you, the ‘demiurge’ is just one player, but a significant one, and the ‘real’
‘Cosmic Mind’ does what it wants at all times, but that ‘Cosmic Mind’ is not human-o-centric at all. Humans are something else, but just another promising species, that will be here for a time, then go extinct, unless they get their shit together.
Here’s to us getting our shit together.
I’d like to point out, that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES should we worship this ‘demiurge’
or go wonky over it, or even necessarily try to negotiate with it. There is no point. Either we
learn to heal ourselves and to merge with ‘the Pleroma’ or we don’t, and that is well BEYOND anything the ‘demiurge’ can help with — it’s entirely up to us.
References:
Platonic Surrealism Definitions
A New Science of Heaven: How the new science of plasma physics is shedding light on spiritual experience by Robert Temple
The Fermi Paradox & The Hivemind Dilemma by Isaac Arthur
Kevin Cann
Public Domain
8/19/2025
Appendix One – More Information on Lagrange Points
L1 and L2 Points
While the L4 and L5 points are generally the largest and most stable, the L1 and L2 points are also significant for space exploration and are found in many of the same systems, including:
- Sun-Earth L1 and L2: These points are extremely important for modern space missions. L1, located between the Sun and Earth, is home to solar observatories like the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO). L2, on the opposite side of Earth from the Sun, is an ideal location for deep-space telescopes like the James Webb Space Telescope, as it provides a clear view of the cosmos while keeping the Sun, Earth, and Moon shielded behind the spacecraft.
- Earth-Moon L1 and L2: These points are being considered as staging areas for future missions to the Moon and beyond.
Regarding Sun-Mercury and Sun-Venus Lagrange Points
While the Sun-Mercury and Sun-Venus systems do technically have Lagrange points, their L4 and L5 points are not stable enough to capture significant populations of asteroids like those of Jupiter. This is due to the smaller masses of Mercury and Venus compared to Jupiter, and the strong gravitational influence of other planets, particularly Jupiter, which disrupt the stability of these points.
Why Mercury and Venus Lagrange Points are Unstable
The stability of the L4 and L5 points is directly related to the mass ratio between the two primary bodies. For these points to be dynamically stable, the mass of the larger body must be at least 25 times the mass of the smaller body.
- The Sun-Jupiter system has a mass ratio of around 1,047 to 1, making its Lagrange points extremely stable and allowing thousands of asteroids (Jupiter Trojans) to reside there.
- The Sun-Earth system has a ratio of about 333,000 to 1, also satisfying the stability requirement. While its L4/L5 points are far less populated than Jupiter’s, they do host a few known Earth Trojans.
- The Sun-Venus system has a mass ratio of about 408,000 to 1, and the Sun-Mercury system has a ratio of about 6,023,000 to 1. Both of these ratios are well within the stability requirement.
However, the close proximity of Jupiter and the other massive planets, which have a much more significant gravitational influence on the inner solar system, disrupts the fragile stability of the L4 and L5 points of Mercury and Venus. The gravitational “tugs” from these larger planets are enough to perturb objects out of these points over long periods.
In fact, the only confirmed Venus Trojan is a single asteroid, and while some others have been proposed, their stability is tenuous. No confirmed Mercury Trojans have been found. This is in stark contrast to Jupiter and Neptune, which have the most well-known and numerous Trojan populations.
The Sun-Jupiter Lagrange Points
The L4 and L5 Lagrange points of the Sun-Jupiter system are located on Jupiter’s orbital path, with L4 being 60° ahead of Jupiter and L5 being 60° behind Jupiter.
These points are the third vertices of two equilateral triangles, with the Sun and Jupiter forming the other two vertices. This means that the distance from the Sun to L4 (or L5) is the same as the distance from Jupiter to L4 (or L5), and both of these distances are equal to the distance between the Sun and Jupiter.
Key Physical Characteristics
- Location: L4 and L5 are located on Jupiter’s orbital plane.
- Distance: The distance from the Sun to L4 (or L5) is approximately 5.2 astronomical units (AU), which is the average distance from the Sun to Jupiter. Similarly, the distance from Jupiter to L4 (or L5) is also about 5.2 AU.
- Asteroid Population: The L4 and L5 points of the Sun-Jupiter system are the most significant and populated in the solar system. They contain a massive number of asteroids known as Jupiter Trojans. The L4 point has a large concentration of asteroids often referred to as the “Greek camp,” while the L5 point has a concentration known as the “Trojan camp.”
- Stability: These points are considered extremely stable because of the high mass ratio between the Sun and Jupiter (over 1,000 to 1). This stability allows objects to remain in these regions for billions of years, making the Jupiter Trojans valuable for studying the early history of the solar system.
Other Outer System Lagrange Points
The Jupiter-moon systems (like Jupiter-Io or Jupiter-Europa) do have their own Lagrange points. However, the stability of these points is often compromised by the presence of the other large moons in the system, which can exert significant gravitational “tugs” that perturb any objects located there.
Jupiter-Moon Lagrange Points 🔭
Unlike the Sun-Jupiter L4 and L5 points, which are massive and stable enough to host thousands of asteroids, the Lagrange points of Jupiter’s moons are much more complex. The main reason for this is the three-body problem is no longer a simple one. The gravitational influence of all four large Galilean moons (Io, Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto) on each other, as well as on any potential object at a Lagrange point, is significant.
- Jupiter-Europa: Europa’s L4 and L5 points are not stable enough to hold a large population of objects because of the strong gravitational influence from its nearby, more massive moon, Ganymede.
- Jupiter-Io: Similarly, the L4 and L5 points of Io, the innermost of the Galilean moons, are heavily affected by the gravity of Europa.
In a two-body system, L4 and L5 are inherently stable as long as the primary body is at least 25 times more massive than the secondary body, which is true for all Jupiter-moon systems. However, with multiple large moons so close to one another, the system becomes a much more complicated multi-body problem, where the gravitational forces from other moons can easily destabilize any objects in a Lagrange point. As such, we have not found any significant, natural populations of objects (like the Sun-Jupiter Trojans) in the Lagrange points of Jupiter’s moons.
Regarding Lagrangian ‘Gravitational Eddies”
While L4 and L5 Lagrange points aren’t technically “eddies” in a fluid dynamic sense, the comparison highlights their key characteristic: they are regions where objects can be gravitationally trapped and co-orbit with a larger body.
Here’s why the analogy is used
- Stable Equilibrium: Unlike the other Lagrange points (L1, L2, and L3) which are unstable, L4 and L5 are stable equilibrium points, like a ball resting at the bottom of a bowl.
- Coriolis Effect: Objects perturbed from L4 or L5 don’t simply drift away. Instead, the Coriolis force (which acts on moving objects in a rotating frame of reference) influences their trajectory, causing them to orbit around the Lagrange point in stable, kidney-shaped paths. This resembles how eddies in a fluid trap and swirl objects.
- Accumulation of Objects: This stability leads to the accumulation of objects like dust and asteroids in these regions, further solidifying the “gravitational eddy” imagery. For example, the Sun-Jupiter L4 and L5 points are famously home to numerous Trojan asteroids.
However, it’s crucial to acknowledge the limitations
- Not a Physical Fluid: Space is not a physical fluid, and the forces at play are gravitational and inertial (including the Coriolis force) rather than viscous forces.
- More Complex Dynamics: The actual orbits around L4 and L5 can be complex, often described as Lissajous or halo orbits rather than simple swirls within an eddy.
In Conclusion: While “gravitational eddy” is a descriptive and helpful analogy for understanding the behavior of objects at L4 and L5, it’s important to remember that it’s a simplification of the underlying gravitational and inertial dynamics. The term effectively conveys the idea of these points acting as regions where objects can be trapped and co-orbit stably with a larger body.
Comparing Neptune and Jupiter’s Orbital Stability
Neptune’s orbit is more stable than Jupiter’s. On the one hand, Jupiter’s immense mass makes it the dominant gravitational force after the Sun, providing a powerful stabilizing influence on the rest of the solar system. On the other hand, the chaotic and unstable nature of the inner solar system, where Jupiter’s influence is strongest, makes its long-term orbital path more susceptible to chaotic perturbations than Neptune’s.
The Case for Jupiter’s Stability
Jupiter’s mass is over 2.5 times the combined mass of all the other planets in the solar system. Its gravity has a stabilizing effect on the inner planets by “shepherding” the asteroid belt and preventing many of its objects from being flung into the inner solar system where they could collide with Earth and the other rocky planets. In this way, Jupiter acts as a gravitational anchor for the entire solar system.
The Case for Neptune’s Stability
Neptune’s orbit is at the very edge of the solar system, making it less susceptible to gravitational perturbations from other planets, especially from Jupiter and Saturn. Moreover, Neptune’s orbit is in a stable orbital resonance with the dwarf planet Pluto. For every three times Neptune orbits the Sun, Pluto orbits twice. This 3:2 resonance ensures that the two bodies never get close enough to one another to disrupt each other’s orbits. This kind of resonance is a powerful stabilizing factor.
While both planets’ orbits are incredibly stable over astronomical timescales, the presence of chaotic behavior in the solar system means that the precise position of any planet cannot be predicted with absolute certainty over hundreds of millions of years. However, both planets are expected to remain in their current, stable orbits for billions of years to come.
— finis —